People associate France with many things pleasant. The cuisine and the wines for example. Honestly, I do as well.
I love a good dry red or rose from Touraine or the banks of the Rhone. The same goes for magret de canard in almost every way they serve it, and a good Perigord salad.
But France also has a lot to offer to vintage watch aficionados. Let’s put wines, ducks, and salads aside, and focus on the watches.
Impressions and background
The Good and The Bad (and some Ugly)
The first contact with French watches can go both ways. You’re either impressed with something like a LIP (more on this later) or disappointed with a Mortima.
LIP was known for its brilliant movements, and their watches scream quality. Mortima, however, is the brand under which watches with Cattin pin-lever movements were sold. You don’t want to associate the watch industry of an entire country with Cattin movements.
Let’s focus on the good stuff, then.
The ebaucheries and their movements
France has a very long history of producing quality generic movements. In the 18th century, Japy Freres was founded as the first company specializing in the mass production of “raw” generic movements.
To give an idea of how big the scale of the enterprise was, only in 1861, the French generic movement suppliers have made a total of circa 800,000 movements. Of these 800,000 movements, 640,000 were made by Japy Freres alone. In comparison, the Swiss industry manufactured circa 285,000 movements the same year. Effectively, it was Japy Freres’ massive output that prompted the Swiss industry to get a move on.
The 20th-century French ebaucheries carried on with the tradition of their predecessors.
Movements by Cupillard, Lorsa, and Hippolyte Parrenin may seem basic and industrial in finishing, but they were well made and kept accurate time. For example, the Cupillard 233, a movement as common in French watches as the AS 984 in Swiss ones, can be finetuned to run well within +10 seconds per day.
French movements in foreign brands
French ebauches were mostly used by French brands catering to the domestic market. However, they were also used by international brands. They either assembled the watches in their countries of origin, or they had their production facilities in France.
Visconte
Visconte was an Austrian brand based in Vienna. The trademark is listed as registered in 1956, but the brand could have existed before that.
They used mostly – if not exclusively – movements by Hippolyte Parrenin (HP).
Benrus
Benrus was an American manufacturer that mostly used Swiss generic movements, but they also had a lot of watches made entirely in France. It’s likely that they were intended to be sold in Europe only. Among other French suppliers, Benrus bought some of the movements from LIP, for example, the electric LIP R148.
French watch brands
Now, let’s move on to some of the French brands, in watches by which you can find these great movements.
LOV
LOV was a family-owned manufacturer. It was based in Villers-le-Lac, a town located only a few kilometers from the Swiss border and one of the main hubs of Swiss watchmaking – Le Locle. Its name is an acronym for Lac Ou Villers – the old name of the town of Villers-le-Lac.
The heyday of the brand spanned from the end of World War II until the early 1970s. During the beginning of the Quartz Crisis, the brand was integrated into the Framelec holding. In turn, it was “swallowed” by an even larger holding, Matra. By the 1980s, and the continuing downfall of Matra, what little was left of LOV disappeared completely.
LOV mostly used the Cupillard 233 and its derivatives, and later on, the next versions of this movement were produced by FE. LOV watches were primarily made in chrome-plated and gold-plated cases. However, it’s not uncommon to find specimens in stainless steel cases.
They’re usually in excellent condition – it’s hard to say why. It could be due to the fact, that mainstream collectors have completely ignored it. However, while LOV was an affordable brand, they did offer excellent case and dial quality. Perhaps both reasons are valid.
LIP
If you ask any watch collector about French watch manufacturers that they know, many will reply “none.” But at least as many will say “LIP.” LIP is pretty much as good as French-made watches of the 20th century get.
LIP, founded by Emmanuel Lipmann and his sons in the 1860s, shifted from basic clockwork mechanisms to pocket watches in the late 1890s. Soon, they became one of the most – if not the most – reputable French watch manufacturer. They’ve mostly used in-house movements such as the R16 in this LIP Dauphine.
Two notable exceptions are their Swiss branch (LIP Geneve) using Valjoux movements for their chronograph wristwatches in the 1960s, and the Valjoux 5 KVM in LIP pocket chronographs in the 1920s. LIP supplied in-house movements to numerous brands. They were mostly small businesses, but also larger brands like Benrus, which I mentioned earlier.
LIP was also the company behind the foundation of the watch industry in the USSR. In the late 1930s, Soviet authorities struck a deal with LIP to develop the newly created watch industry in the country. After the revolution of 1917, watchmakers like Pavel Bure (Paul Buhre) were forced to leave Russia, and the small watchmaking industry had effectively been dismantled.
The first watches they made in cooperation with LIP used the imported LIP calibre T18. However, Soviet authorities bought the necessary equipment to produce the T18, and the new factory produced the T18 as the “Zvezda” (Star). It became the cornerstone of the Soviet watch industry.
In the 1950s, the Petrodvorets Watch Factory started making its own versions of other LIP designs.
The company has gone bankrupt in 1973, due to poor management by its major shareholder (Ebauches SA). In its heyday, the company produced a wide selection of wristwatches, from simple dress watches to chronographs and electric divers (Nautic-Ski).
Yema
Founded in 1948 in Besancon, the central hub of the French watch industry, Yema was yet another company known for its high-quality watches.
Vintage Yemas are gaining more and more recognition among collectors. This concerns mostly their chronographs, like the iconic Yachtingraf regatta watch, and dive watches like the Yema Superman, as well as the Sous-Marine sports models with waterproof cases.
The chronographs used Swiss generic movements. Basic time-only watches, however, use movements from French suppliers.
Maty
Maty was founded in 1951. Concerning their range of watches, they’re like Yema. They offered everything from time-only dress watches to chronographs and dive watches. And, like Yema, they’ve used Swiss chronograph ebauches.
The company still exists and remains under the ownership of the family of the company’s founder, Gerard Mantion. These days, while the watches are assembled in France, they’re equipped with Asian quartz movements.
The charm of obscure brands
A lot of French watch brands have been wiped out by the quartz crisis and never achieved the necessary popularity to leave any significant footprint. However, it’s not fair to attribute this obscurity to the quality of the watches. Even among the forgotten brands, you can find some stunning pieces, equipped with reliable and accurate movements.
So, are French watches good?
In short, yes, they are. It’s hard to tell why, but they’re usually in excellent condition. As mentioned before, this could have been due to the quality of the cases. France had its own case manufacturers. However, since cases were mostly unmarked, it’s hard to say which cases were made in France, and which have been sourced from elsewhere.
Perhaps the excellent condition of vintage French watches has to do with the fact that most collectors aren’t aware of the scale of the 20th-century French watch industry.
Sure, military watch collectors and vintage chronograph aficionados talk for hours about the Type 20 and 21 chronographs for the French air force. However, most of them have never heard of brands like LOV or Maty. French watches were more likely to change hands from generation to generation rather than from seller to seller. So, it’s more likely that they were carefully handled and serviced on time.
Ever since I started collecting watches, I’ve never heard a bad opinion about a French watch. Maybe except for certain pin-levers, but this has more to do with the bad reputation of pin-lever movements in general.
I believe that French watches are an excellent way for a beginner to start the watch collecting hobby.
Do you have any experience with French watches, or own one? Let me know in the comments.
My father has an old watch from a company named “Whitney”. He was in the US Air Force in the 40s and obtained this watch somewhere in Europe. I am able to find NOTHING about this company. Can anyone help me?
I have a vintage Bradley watch that has France on the face and inside says Cattin France. Any ideas?
I bought a Lip T18 watch due to it’s somewhat smaller size; Current watches tend to be very large to the point that they remind one of an alarm clock with watch straps. My Lip T18 watch seems to be a perfect size. I am very satisfied with my purchase.
I have a question, has anyone heard of Starvex-Ancre 17 rubies, watch. I am informed it is a French watch, however, I can find no information on this brand. Can anyone please advise. Thank you. Kevin
Have you heard of gold French Watch called la Monde manufactured around 1973-1974?
No, never heard of it. The only listing of a Le Monde in the Mikrolisk horological trademark index is an Italian company from Milan.
Hi I have bought a watch for my wife but has makers name ALLIANCE 2000, France
It is a solid silver watch but can’t find any information on the make
Can you help!!
I have my mother’s Action Incabloc. Is this a French make?
It could be, but the Mikrolisk trademark index has three mentions of Action. One is Swiss, one is Italian and one is French. Incabloc is a Swiss anti-shock device, so the evidence points to a Swiss watch.
Hi I have a french watch named “ Courbet Watch”
I was told it’s made in the 50’s
Just wanted to know a little brief history on this watch brand
Hi I have an old 50s LOV chronograph 17 rubis carbolic which I intend to get repaired and serviced
How rare are these? I have never even seen a picture of a similar one
It’s the same age as myself hence why I bought it many years ago
Any info much appreciated
Hi, rare is such an overused term on eBay and other websites that I hate to use it. Only very few watches are actually rare. A birthyear watch is always special. Wear it in good health.
Hi,
do you happen to know anything about a French watch company names Astree Watch? Some claim it’s associated with Dodane, but I am not so sure? I recently found a clean example of a 60s Astree Watch Chronograph at. Thanks!
Hi, I just bought a watch named Hero, on the dial is also written Ancre 15 Rubis, Antichoc, and I see inside a Lorsa 238 movement. Any idea about this brand Hero? On the inside of back cover are some notes, probably when it was revised, oldest is 64, so, I suppose the watch is older than 1964.
Thank you for your answer.
Hi, I’ve no idea about the French Hero brand. All I’m able to find are references to a Swiss Hero brand and 1 German one.
I have bought up all old Lip watches in Australia since the population of watch enthusiasts consider them too small and not fitting the image. It is a pity that present day tastes favour wrist watches of pocket watch dimensions. I love the old calibers, especially the hand wound FHF. You could drink a cup of tea while waiting for full wind!
Lip is a fantastic brand. They still make nice models today. Wear them in good health.
Fred, I wonder where I could find your collection. Do you have a shop? I’m in the US, and I like vintage watches that size.
Hi
Going through my late fathers effects came across his Visconte Sistex deluxe automatic. Ran first time after 10 years of inactivity. Would love to know a bit more about this watch . Can you help
Best regards
andrew
I have a Watra wristwatch with a Lorsa 238 movement circa 1965, it was my grandpa’s watch. It’s a robust well done caliber
Very nice, Javier. I also have my grandpa’s watch with a Lorsa 238A. Wear it in good health.
Hello. I bought a vintage Watra French Made watch on the internet for 90 $ at an online autcion. It’s from 1950-1959 and is in very good condition. I made a research and it looks pretty okay. I’m waiting for the watch to be shipped now. Do you think it might be a fake for that price?
Hi, congrats on a nice watch. I don’t think it’s fake. Watch brands that aren’t well known are usually still affordable.
i just picked up a woman’s watch with the name : Bouton on it made in Hong, Kong 17 jewels bazel stainless steel gold band {plated I am assuming ?} can’t find anything on it ?
Any idea ?? Can send picture later.
Hi, it sounds French but it’s probably not a French watch because it’s made in Hong Kong.
I stumbled across this post whilst trying to find out more about a japy freres wrist watch that I own however there’s absolutely nothing online about it.the case is stamped with the japy logo and the movement is signed ‘made in france’
Any ideas??
Hi, please send some pictures of the watch and the movement to info@wahawatches.com
I have got a Le Mey wristwatch swiss made. However, I can not find any info on the internet. I do not know who Le Mey is, when the company built, where it originally come from( Maybe from France, because of Le) Is it a family- owned watch maker? Any one can help , thanks a lot.
The only reference to Le May that I can find is that it’s associated with Meyers Jewelers Inc. in California, USA. If you can send some pictures of the movement and the inside of the case back to info@wahawatches.com we might be able to tell you more.
Great article Michal!
I am coincidentally a beginner watch collector and started with a vintage Thales…
One of those obscure ones which one can’t find any information on.
Would love to get your opinion on it if at all possible?
Thanks, Martijn! If you’d like to have us take a look at the watch, you can send pictures of it (front and the movement) to info@wahawatches.com. As for Thales… The only trace of it I could find is a trademark registered to Montres Thales, located in Morteau, which is right in the heartland of French watchmaking, just a stone’s throw away from Villers-le-Lac, and 10 klicks east of Les Brenets and Le Locle in Switzerland. I doubt there’s much more to find – sometimes just a trace in the trademark registers is as good as it gets. Frankly, that’s not bad at all, some brands didn’t even leave as much as that. Anyway, this trace in the registers shows that Thales was a brand of its own, and not – for example – a private label, which would have been made by an unidentifiable supplier of complete, unsigned watches.
Hello Michal,
Supremely informative read!
Loved it immensely, except the fact that you put down Mortima. I bumped into a vintage Mortima diver covered in mud, at a flea market and brought it back to life. Read up on the brand and became a huge fan of Emile Cattin.
Now I have 3 Mortima divers and a Yema chronograph.
French watches rule the exotic collector’s stable.
All the best!
Hi Arnab,
I’m glad you enjoyed the article. As to Mortima, it surely has a fascinating history, however the movements in them aren’t exactly state-of-the-art. In fact, anything but. Since they’re pin-levers, many watchmakers will simply refuse to service them. The other downside is something of a nonsensical design – they tend to sport a normal jewel count, while the jewels in question have no actual function as bearings. They’re redundant capstones. Mortimas are of the cheap and cheerful sort of watches to collect, however I’ve come across mixed opinions on the movements. It’s not like I’m shunning pin-lever movements – Oris, for example, was prevented by ridiculous legislation from making anything else than pin levers, and thus they had no choice but to perfect the design. And they did so to the point at which they had one pin-lever certified as a chronometer. Still, I must confess that I would prefer a Mortima (Cattin) movement to something by Kienzle, UMF or Baumgartner.
I have a Aiirain Special, gold plated,15 jewel. I would like to know more about it.
Hi, you can email some pictures to info@wahawatches.com
I have a watch by Veve
Vintage circa 1940’s
I purchased this from a watch dealer and would love to find out more about it
I can send a pic next week
Thanks